Joggie van Staden
(K=41700) - Comment Date 5/5/2005
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Thanks for that Tony. The whole idea (for myself anyhow)with nature macro's is to record specific features and/or behavior of the creature in an innovative way and as true as possible. If you are freezing animals in order to photograph them you miss the whole point and also the thrill and satisfaction of it. For the slightly trained eye it is clearly visible and such a photo will never get a comment or rating from me. Anyhow, a dead insect almost immedeately looses its sheen and lustre after death leading to a second rate product.
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Patrick Ziegler
(K=21797) - Comment Date 5/11/2005
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Wow, I have seen none of these cruel photos on UF. However, I am reminded of a high school project where we had to knock out fruit flies in order to seperate them into specific groups. Surely a little ether and a jar of fruit flies cannot rise to the level of animal cruelty.
Many hollywood movies are made with the use of bug ranglers who remove stingers and do all sorts of other things to get the shot.
Also, Mr. Tony I notice you have no bio and have never posted even a single photo.
How do you feel about spraying for mosquitoes to slow the spread of West Nile Fever?
I do not practice these techniques but really have not seen ANY, photos that call for such an attack on the members of this glorious website.
So there!
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Steen Heilesen
(K=440) - Comment Date 5/13/2005
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I don't know what you are talking about.
Why don't you reply to those, you suspect doing that.
I know how hard it is to make those kind of photos of living insects. Don't make a general judgement.
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Jorg Reif
(K=16020) - Comment Date 5/15/2005
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Tony, obviously killing a bug or subduing it for a macro photo is out of the question, but I am not aware of having seen such shots or noticed some on this web site. Maybe I am just no observant enough. Then, I would appreciate if you would post some links where you suspect that dead bugs were used - I guess there will never be a way to determine that an animal has been killed for the shot! But at any rate it should be stated by the photographer that the bug was dead when he photographed it.
On another note something connected to your post which concerns me a lot is underwater close ups: I think in nature photography animals, and plants and the environment take a lot of abuse while being photographed, especially underwater. I am an avid scuba diver, but I never took up underwater photography. Frequently when I dived with Uw photographers and they took close ups I saw at least one of them abusing creatures and the UW environment. I guess it is not possible to get close ups without doing so, even for a professional, less so for an amateur. If you think of how much damage is being done to a very sensitive environment just to get a probably mediocre picture (an "own" picture) from an underwater creature which has been photographed and published a thousand times in books and journals is just depressing.
Thanks for your post but again: in the absence of proof it is just a suspicion.
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Tony Tiger
(K=239) - Comment Date 5/16/2005
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Dear all, try looking at some dragonfly pictures.
I have studied these creatures for many years now and have never seen one land and rest with one leg curled up.
The only time I have seen a fly with a leg curled under is when it is dead.
This is not a general go at everyone, it's just a big disappointement to me.
Flying insects are very difficult subjects to photograph well but as I said, there is no talent in photographing them when they are dead.
I have posted no photo's because I am new to digital and have stayed clear of the internet. Also most of the pictures posted on this forum put my efforts to shame.
I will not name and shame anyone and I don't have a problem with gassing mosquitos, I just would not then photograph them and pretend I captured them live on film.
Pat:
The point with the Hollywood stuff is that the bugs are not the stars of the film they are more like studio background.
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Michael Kanemoto
(K=22115) - Comment Date 6/22/2005
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Thanks for caring. Comment 1 on 1 with whomever you see. For the most part I see lots of live bugs and have fun chasing them around with a macro.
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Ladybug Loves UF
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Marcus Armani
(K=36599) - Comment Date 7/8/2005
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I use a bug stun gun and shoot my macro, then I carfully put the bug back on the exact same branch or leaf I found him, NOT its a damn bug, It may make for easier and not as skillful Macro, but we have pics of starving children, people hunting animals and birds, and you are going to pitch a fit over wheather a person is hurting a mindless but to get his shot. what do you do when masquetos get in you house, kindly catch them and put them outside. this is a silly post that should be laughed off and you efforts should be put to more important things, like saving the live of creaturs on this earth that have a mind and can actually feel pain....
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Tony Tiger
(K=239) - Comment Date 7/26/2005
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You really did not read my comments did you!
I don't care for mosquitos any more than the next guy but if you are going to take pictures of them in an attempt to portray them in their natural habitat don't kill them. Near on anyone could gas an insect, photograph it full frame and get every hair/antenna on it's body in focus and in full frame, but it's talentless.
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Tony Howell
(K=163) - Comment Date 10/5/2005
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Does this look lively enough?
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Dragon fly august 2005 Swindon england
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Tony Howell
(K=163) - Comment Date 10/5/2005
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Swindon Canal England July 2005
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Tony Howell
(K=163) - Comment Date 10/5/2005
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Or maybe this, Dragon flies are easy to shoot, deers are much harder
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small blue
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Tony Howell
(K=163) - Comment Date 10/5/2005
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and here is small blue in a stick
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small blue on a twig
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Tony Tiger
(K=239) - Comment Date 10/12/2005
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Looks a bit like one of mine
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dragon
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Tony Howell
(K=163) - Comment Date 10/12/2005
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Yes looks so similar it must the same and either I have the male or female and yours is vice versa, judging from the subbtle differences. I shot mine this year in July on the Canal in Swindon, Wilts, I noticed that it would fly off and return to exactly the same spot so I waited for it.
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Tony Tiger
(K=239) - Comment Date 10/14/2005
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They do seem quite territorial which is a good thing from a photographers stand point.
The largest ones appear to be on the move all the time and, as yet, I have not managed to photograph one well.
Still, that gives me an excuse to go and try again next summer.
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good bye !!!
(K=259) - Comment Date 1/31/2006
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If you dont like it then leave! You big BABY! Go cry somewhere else.
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Tony Tiger
(K=239) - Comment Date 3/3/2006
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Tony Franco:
I was going to rise to your throwing down of the gauntlet but, as you have a couple of noteworthy images in your folio, I will spare you the humiliation.
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Clarence Chua
(K=139) - Comment Date 4/1/2006
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Come on guys. Whats happening here. Tony Tiger is doing a good job, he's protecting the sanctity of photography. Some of your arguments aginst him like gassing mosquitoes and the relative suffering of children are wholly irrelevant. He does not need any posting for him to make a comment here. Worse, Tony Franco sounds like the exact thing he is describing. This is a photography forum, not a street brawl. I respect Tony for his desire of preservation of what we hold dear.
But the only issue is there is no proof that usefilm is full of photos of dead insects, i personally havent seen any. In contrast, there are some wonderful macro shots of live insects. so maybe we should hush this.
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Tony Tiger
(K=239) - Comment Date 4/2/2006
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I had originally tuned out of this thread but, thanks for recognising that I am not an insect hugger so to speak.
We all have things we are passionate about and perhaps I should have phrased my opening gambit somewhat differently.
I am in total concurrence with you on the quality of the work displayed in the macro areas and I hope to aspire to the same levels one day.
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Nathan Gillies
(K=1011) - Comment Date 4/23/2006
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is it just me or are most of this discussion written by ppl named tony ???
:-)
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Tony Tiger
(K=239) - Comment Date 4/23/2006
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Now you mention it, it does seem a bit like that.
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Zamfirr zeffer
(K=425) - Comment Date 6/1/2006
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Hi Mr. Tiger;
I take a fair amount of macro shots of bugs and such. I've looked at many if not most of the photos on UF labeled as macro. I've yet to find any that I could positively identify as a dead subject. On another forum I reside, I have found one photo with several dead insects. They we're ladybugs and the photographer indicated in the description that they were dead. After seeing the composition it was obvious the positions of the ladybugs could never have occurred in nature, at least with a photographer present. ;) That being said the shot was one of the nicest compositions I've ever observed. I've also observed dragon flys fold their front legs above their heads. This could be preceived as "curled up". I respect your stance with respect to nature and photography. I don't embrace it in the same manner. I realize that my presence in this natural world has consequences. The ones you describe here are easy to condemn. Unfortunately the consequences of your and my existence cause far more enviromental damage than all the images of bugs killed by photographers added together. This "load" we place on our enviroment is being reduced by technical innovation. Much more could be done on this front. Our personal energy could much better be utilized by helping promote this activity. As the watermen say; "A rising time floats all boats." Population control, energy efficiency, and recycling of valuable resources will help all of the animal kingdom.
Walt
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Phills Photography
(K=145) - Comment Date 7/30/2006
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heres a macro i shot and as you can see very much alive
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IN FLIGHT
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Tony Tiger
(K=239) - Comment Date 9/5/2006
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Now that's an awesome shot, probably one of the best I have seen.
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Free Rider
(K=430) - Comment Date 4/11/2007
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What if the photographer was going to kill the bug anyway (the mosquito, for instance)? Would it then not be a shame to not at least get the photograph? What if someone else killed the bug and the photographer just took the picture? The latter may happen with larger animals as well. You cannot make assumptions about how the photo was set up unless the photographer has specifically stated it. If specifically stated, it is not "pretending" anything. imho
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Free Rider
(K=430) - Comment Date 4/11/2007
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Just to add... I notice lots of photos of flowers. Surely some of them have been picked (killed) and posed, perhaps even a studio. Should we chastise photographers for picking innocent flowers that can't even run away?
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