Oh, I didn't take that as if it was referring to me, Andre. "I" should be an example for an "average", that's all.
But I think you're right about that intention to not say anything at all instead of saying something that isn't nice. As we see everything can be exagerated - even political correctness ;-)
Both curiosity and the wish to get better just dictate an open mind that is able to take even devastating critique as an enrichment of the own views. So, just stay on that tune and always speak "loud and clear" about my photos.
As we say in Greek, "If I don't argue with my friends, then with whom should I argue? With unknown persons on the street?" ;-)
Hi again Nick. I just wanted to clear up one thing on this conversation. When I said that about people having their feelings hurt by negative comments, I wasn't refering to you. I was just thinking out loud that people in general are more likely to continually give praise and positive comments, even if they do see something that they don't particularly care for. The intention of not hurting people's feelings by giving negative comments is probably a major factor. I think a lot of people live by the rule. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" Of course none of us would ever learn much without constructive criticizm. Andre
Regarding the image, I could just move the plant out of view and put it back there after having shot the photo. (*If* the people of that restaurant wouldn't get wild, that is ;-))
As about critiques, I still can't understand why some suggestion or negative words should "harm my feelings". For me, it's quite like a sincere and open discussion, in which of course I can't assume "perfectness" of my photos and skills a priori, expecting to hear only good comments. One should expect the many different tastes of which you talked about, to be an invaluable source if diverging opinions, which are a treasure in the process of exchange, taking different point of views, and above all learning.
The question is: What do we expect here? To always get some friendly touch at our shoulders, or to improve our skills? And if the latter is the case, how can we improve our skills if anything we do *is* already perfect? We have to understand at last that politeness and a friendly atmosphere doesn't have to do anything with permanent "nice comments".
I still do enjoy too, very much, posting photos here, but to my taste the whole exchange process, the critiques, the interpretation, and the ability to "see with different eyes" is getting a bit lame. If we feel that we are the party poopers, then we also have to feel that this party slows down considerably. What a party is that, in which everybody agrees to agree just for agreeing? Reading such "fully agreeing" comments all of the time, I sometimes feel something even worse that being myself a party pooper. I feel that I could get out and just shoot anything - and it still would be "oh what a nice photo" ;-)
So, friends out there, where is your own taste, where are your own views, where is critiques and suggestions? Write that, talk about that, don't only like photos! We shouldn't end up on some kind of virual family sofa where everybody likes everything just because it is "the family"!
Andre, thanks again for all the comments up to now, and also for all the further thoughts, which I myself have to think about.
Hi Nick, The image might be better without the plants. Maybe without the large one on the far right? But you couldn't really do it with a crop because you would probably upset a lot of the other balance and detail in the arches and floor.
I do understand the way you feel about a lot of the comments that come in at Usefilm. There are so many different kinds of users here on this site. Some serious, some semi serious, some friendly, and on and on. Overall I think the quality of images here is still quite high, even if the comments sometimes tend to lean more towards the complimentary variety. Personally, I have nothing against people just writing short little compliments back and forth. It is still an exchange... although sometimes not the best way to improve and gain other peoples opinions.
A long time ago, I learned what I think is the most effective way to do a critique on images. I attended a couple of years of photographic arts courses in the early 70's. There were about 12 people in the classes. Every other week we had an hour set aside where we posted on a blackboard what we thought was our best image from our previous week's work. Everyone in the class viewed everybody elses work. We then had to write down one positive thing and one negative thing about every image on the board. Even if you loved an image, you still had to find something negative to say about it. Under these circumstances you soon learn to be very thick skinned and soon find out that you are not as good as you thought you were :) It is a real eye opener to have your work critiqued like this. Another thing you soon find out is how many different kinds of subjective tastes there are amongst 12 different people.
I agree that most people here at Usefilm feel that they should only say nice things about an image. I often find myself being one of the only people with anything negative to say in a long line of 20 comments. It makes me feel like a party pooper sometimes. But, I still feel that it is the correct way to comment. We have to tell it the way we see it.:) Unfortunately sometimes people's feelings get hurt.
Oh well. I'm still enjoying myself here anyway. I've made a lot of nice Usefilm friends over the last two years. There are mostly a lot of good people here that share a common interest in images of one kind or another.
Thank you very much for the great detailed comment that deserves the name, Andre!
About the photo, wouldn't it be better if the plants on the right wouldn't be there? I can't really say... :-/ Any thoughts about that?
Allow me to take the opportunity to write a bit about the average situation considering the comments on the presented photos in this forum.
I must say that I gain more and more the impression, that most (but not all) members here, do not care so much about photography. Especially when I read most of the comments, in which I don't find anything more than the same stereotypes of one-line opinions along with much of the commentator's "feelings", I must come to the conclusion, that this forum is in danger to get converted to some virtual tea-room where some kind of family album exchange is practised. Oh, how sweet - oh, how nice ;-) Oh how terrible, I must say!!!
Thus, I think the best thing to do for getting more "comments" here, would be to make photos of some sweet pets and kids that support that kind of "ooohh, how nice" comments. Not to forget the possibility of writing myself such sweet and useless comments.
Anyway, I am glad to know that there are still some people out there that are willing to exchange and share opinions about photography and not solely about their "feelings". Such really interested people, like you, seem to be unfortunately much less than the typical "feeling-exchangers", but as we should know up to now, quantity was never a measure for quality.
Thanks a lot again for the comment, Andre, and keep it up!
This is a really nice B&W image Nick. Great balance in the grey scale. Nice detail throughout, from the darker cobblestones to the intricate folded chairs to the lovely white arches in the subtle shadow. See... you captured everything!! I don't know why more people don't seem to recognize a nice image like this? There is a lot to comment on in this one. Andre Andre
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