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Francisco Mata Rosas
{K:71} 9/20/2006
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Thanks Arvin, please visit my site
www.franciscomata.com.mx
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Arvin Alston
{K:1495} 9/20/2006
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controversy = art
with out it we are lefy with the norm.
inspiring peace. thank you
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Siddharth Siva
{K:3327} 11/1/2004
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wow..what controversy and attention..first of all..terribly disturbing and horrific picture..very emotional even if it is morbid..
and if the photographer has to participate in every event that he/she witnesses and attempts to photograph..he/she can might as well forget documenting anything. in this case the photographer mightnt have been able to stop the atrocity even if he/she wanted to. as for animals dying, they are killed for food all the time...not dogs but other animals...will karen care to visit every abbatoir and slaughter house in the world and attempt to put a stop to the activities there? would karen also like to visit every dairy farm and stop the milking of cows and goats? lets no be hypocritical here...its not 'just' a dog..it suffered and died..documenting it is as important as attempting to stop it.
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lowell whipple girbes
{K:13151} 2/18/2004
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excellent
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Alisa Mudge
{K:12511} 2/13/2004
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I stopped myself once from taking a photo of a dead bird. I thought it was too much (too morbid) to put on film. I wish I had now. My mother has this huge window that birds crash into all the time. I will go back before she sells the house I grew up in and see if I could find one again.
Alisa
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NeL ...
{K:207} 1/14/2004
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uff.
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Tim Stevens
{K:642} 1/14/2004
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I know I'm a little late on this one but I LOVED reading this entire thread. Good work to those of you who actually did the research before writing comments. Bad work for those of you who condemned, assumed, and generalized.
Let's keep up the argument. I'll go first.
Who really pulled the trigger on JFK?
GO!
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Becky Tefertiller
{K:49} 1/9/2004
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it made me step back and say, Whoa! I like it. it affected me, good job! I like the effect. reguards, becky
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Tom Meyer
{K:3514} 1/8/2004
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And Paolo... saying "I always have found some American points of view quite "naive"" is like me saying I have ALWAYS found SOME Italians to be gangsters. You assume all people from the same country are the same, and they are not. Also please note that "ALWAYS" and "SOME" tend to cancel each other out, you see? Are we "always" the same? or are "some" of us the same? Can't be both!
Regarding "I hope I have been my self understood..." sorry, you have not.
Oh and pay no attention to Jerry's argument (he's a naive American). I'd be arguing your point if you had made it about Armenians... it's bigoted and prejudiced. Stop worrying about where a person is from, and start listening to what they have to say... t
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Tom Meyer
{K:3514} 1/8/2004
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Thanks Gianluca, I was trying to make that same point: that Lisa was being creative in her verbal response, by using irony and sarcasm. Maybe Paolo needs some little icon like the smiley face, to know when someone is being sarcastic.
Obviously I can't make any catagorical statements about Italians, since Gianluca and Paolo are such different people yet both Italian! How can that be? Amazing! (ironic icon goes here). I think we can assume that Francisco is a fine fellow, even though he has made this disturbing picture.
I am reminded of a story told by A.D. Coleman about a man in the old American West (a cowboy like our current president!) who, while attending a theatrical presenation of Othello, became so incensed at Iago's treachery that he pulled his gun and shot the actor. That cowboy lacked critical distance. Some people posting here assume that Francisco killed this dog... they too lack critical distance, and their condemnation of him is as absurd as the cowboy who shot the actor... t
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Val .
{K:4973} 1/8/2004
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wow! super!
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Syrie Kovitz
{K:1349} 1/6/2004
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God I love it. Reminds me a bit of Sally manns new work...oooh great
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Gianluca G
{K:2004} 1/6/2004
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I can't resist... I have to join into the discussion!
First of all: LISA WAS BEING IRONICAL. If you don't understand it by reading her comment, then look at her portfolio (Lisa, I love your portofolio, I mean this in the best possible way). Her pictures should make you understand that she doesn't mean her comment but is just being ironical/sarcastic.
Secondly, if you read Francisco's comment (in Spanish) he is saying that this is a STUFFED ANIMAL. It is not dying, it has not just been killed. It died ages ago, has been stuffed, and is being used for a religious procession in Cuba.
It seems to me everyone's arguing for the wrong reasons. Yet being Italian ( ;) ) I just enjoy it soo much I have to add my 2 cents! ;)
More seriously, I am very much suprised by Karen's comment condemning the photographer just witnessing (without trying to prevent) death or suffering. I thought that this is what photojournalism is about most of the times (but not being a journalist I may be mistaken). If all the photojournalists had tried to "stop" criminals (of all types and sorts) perpetrating their crime, they would have probably ended up dead and the world would have not been able to find out about the crimes themselves. Obviously it is a very very tough choice to be made by the reporter, probably a choice he or she has to make each time he is witnessing a crime being committed. However I believe that sometimes the cause of the victims may be better served by having a living witness rather than another dead man or women.
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Tim Long
{K:9228} 1/5/2004
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(There was no attached file. Please excuse my exuberance.)
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Tim Long
{K:9228} 1/5/2004
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Controversy! Bravo! The image disturbing. Good! It fires the emotions. Good! It here stimulates xenophobia. BAD! Is this a site on which to wave the flag, to compare numbers of deceased relatives buried where, to crucify the messenger, or is it to stimulate and provoke creativity? The image is one of real life, and death, not of an antiseptic, plastic, Disney faux-puppy. My life is clean and good and how dare you let your squalor keep me up at night? Wake me, please!
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Christine Campbell
{K:2693} 1/5/2004
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The subject is definately disturbing and sad, but it's powerful enough that I translated the Spanish comments and Googled my way to a somewhat better understanding. Not all of us gringos are assholes and some of us want to understand the why's & reasons behind such photos. I hadn't heard of San Lazaro (only Lazarus) before I saw this photo but I have heard a little about Santeria. Now I know a little bit more about both.
Maybe more of an explanation in the "About" section would have cleared up some of the misunderstandings, but it would have made for a less controversial photo...
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Mark Beltran
{K:32612} 1/5/2004
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It's saddening, a tragedy. If there is any justice for that dog, it would be in this photograph, that he lived and did not deserve this fate.
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Jerry Lantz
{K:56} 1/5/2004
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Hey Palol
Why do so many Italians resent Americans so much?
Are you even aware of how many Americans lost their lives defending your freedom?
You probably wouldn?t even be here to criticize Americans if it weren?t for the tens of thousands of American soldiers that defended you country; two of my uncles are buried in your country because of this war, yet you still resent Americans? Your welcome.
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Paolo Stefano Amero
{K:5607} 1/5/2004
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To T.W. Meyer:
I always have found some American points of view quite "naive", using an euphemism. Americans themselves love to depict themsleves as "naive"; and I think this is a good example of what they probably mean, besides the fact that I have found out that Lisa is British and not America.
Well, I read this comment by Lisa: "wow, things like this dont happen where i live so i dont want to come on here and see that they happen elsewheer in the world!!!!!"
And this is exactly what I find "naive" in such a way of thinking: Lisa says that "as things like this do not happen in my country (lucky country must be hers, if dogs are not abandoned, though the BBC doesn't seem to agree with Lisa: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/428467.stm), then I do not want to see photos like this here in Usefilm". This is what I understand by reading her words.
Your question is what can I find political in her statement: I know many Americans and I often find in them some similar thoughts: seems to me that they more easily get shocked seeing a dead dog than knowing that their occupation of Iraq costed the life of nearly 20,000 civilians: children, women, old people, etc.
I think that a human life is more precious that a dog one, but I sometimes see that it doesn't seem to be the same for all of us. I hope I have been my self understood...
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Dave Arnold
{K:55680} 1/4/2004
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I think I am more offended over the comment by Lars: "yet its only a dog". That type of attitude is what starved this dog and millions of others. As for the picture. I love it and I hate it. I love it for its thought-provoking ability and I hate it for what happened. I prefer not to believe that the photographer set the death up or the hand in the photo had anything to do with the death. It crossed my mind that the hand may be that of a person trying to save the dog, not kill it. It is obvious to me the dog is laying on a sidewalk and the "hand" person has leaned over it, as in examining it.
As for whether a photographer should shoot this image, I have to say yes. What is the difference between taking this photograph and taking that of a dead, starved child in Africa? We see those images in our face all the time, used by those looking for contributions to end world hunger. And it works. Who's to say this photo wouldn't work for someone concerned about dog abuse.
While disturbing because I am a dog lover, I have to say it is a good photograph. I would not condone the taking of the photo if the photographer had anything to do with this dogs death, however.
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John Strazza
{K:11535} 1/4/2004
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powerful image -- well done ...
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Robert Mossack
{K:10} 1/4/2004
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This is very sad indeed, I would like to know the back story behind this photo.
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Jerry Lantz
{K:56} 1/4/2004
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Is this a dog that you starved to death for a photo?
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Marce
{K:1331} 1/4/2004
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so horrible and sad
and i love your photo.
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Felipe Rodríguez
{K:9200} 1/4/2004
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Es cierto que estos gringos con frecuencia son unos pendejos que no entienden ni carajo...
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Eddy ~
{K:1152} 1/4/2004
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well, i don't want to repeat what's been said.i just wanna say i'm happy cuz some people posted that this picture reminds us of the dead people, the stupid wars that are going on, and basically the result of not us loving each other and treating each other well...
peace to y'all
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Rodrigo D
{K:1577} 1/4/2004
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Caro Sr. Mata, ud. ha sucitado una discursion sin tamaño con tu fotografia: congratulaciones - esto és el objectivo del fotojornalismo... Todavia és esencial que haga explicaciones acerca de la celebracíon de San Lazaro en Cuba - y que significa el perro muerto en ella. És parte de alguno ritual de santeria? Estoy muchissimo curioso. Además, he quedado enfadado con todo esta gente gringa bien alimentada y falsamente perpleja por un perro muerto y que desconoce la rica tradicion religiosa de central america. ;)
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Lars Raun
{K:1701} 1/4/2004
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interesting. shocking. brutal, yet its only a dog..but a pathetic death, nonetheless.. sad...well done..
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bea rowland
{K:2167} 1/4/2004
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I read this photo as disturbing, but very interesting...what the dog is laying on appears to be skin: so, I saw the three types of skin...a very unique and touching image.
This is a very good discussion about a disturbing image. As journalism, I believe that the world would be a lesser place if photojournalists and others did not take photos of what they don't necessarily approve of. Think Somalia, VietNam, and the obvious lack of such photos from the current conflict in Iraq.
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Francisco Mata Rosas
{K:71} 1/4/2004
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...and this.
http://www.fotografosdenuevoleon.com.mx/galeria/mata.htm
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Francisco Mata Rosas
{K:71} 1/4/2004
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Please visit this
www.franciscomata.com.mx.
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Antonio Delicado
{K:189} 1/4/2004
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Excelente e dramática composição
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Leslie Hancock
{K:910} 1/4/2004
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Excellent photos in your portfolio. That said, I don't share the current enthusiasm for fuzzy Holga-isms. Your G2 is far preferable, I think -- oddly enough, it's less pretentious.
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xy x
{K:41915} 1/4/2004
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Yes, this is the real life...you can't keep eyes closed if something bad happens. They happend all the times! Congratulations for courage to showed this here! It is heartbreaking, but cos of the photos like this, maybe people start to think different and realised that is the time to do better and good things. Thanks for sharing, best regards!
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Francisco Mata Rosas
{K:71} 1/4/2004
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Because the translation is so bad i try to do.
i read with much attention all the commentaries and every time surprises to me but the power of image to create metaforas,
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Francisco Mata Rosas
{K:71} 1/4/2004
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Lei con mucha atencion todos los comentarios y cada vez me sorprende mas el poder de la fotografia para crear metaforas, este es un perro disecado que se utiliza en una procesion de penitencia durante la celebracion de San Lazaro en Cuba, en resumen es una representacion.
Pero es magnifico que una imagen nos mueva a pensar y discutir, esyoy muy satisfecho.
Francisco Mata Rosas
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karen barnett
{K:4237} 1/4/2004
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Certainly NOT photo of the day quality, not in subject matter, not in composition, not in emotional appeal ... not not not.
Is it sad, yes. Is it a crime against nature, yes. Is it an abomination of man and his treatment of animals, YES. But in this photo death is not the abomination... it is the condition of the animal, he lived to this terrible state.
I will be honest... I have seen LIVING dogs as malnurished, and have worked hard to prosecute the evil ones who starved the dog,,,,, and have cried but even understood the ending of their suffering if the animal could not be revived. But I have seen worse conditions respond to constant care.
I cannot abide the mistreatment of animals, nor people. Worse, I cannot abide a photographer PARTICIPATING in mistreatment via non-intervention. "Journalists" cannot sit by and WATCH a murder being committed. They have a HUMAN responsibility to intervene. So don't say you were just recording an event. Every human being, regardless of job, has a responsibility to put out a fire... to save a life... to lessen suffering..... if they are in a position to do so.
You, Fransisco Mata, should have turned your camera to the perpetrator and pasted their photo across the world for all to know..... so that the persons or persons who particiapted in this abomination woule be forever known to mankind, scorned and deprived of food until they understood what suffering they had inflicted.
Since you were privy to this death, and you know the evil ones who starved this animal (who may or may not be the ones who put it to death via the syringe in the hand) you are now charged with making the situation RIGHT... so it can never happen again.
Get your camera working toward good.
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Jeff Dorn
{K:182} 1/4/2004
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Disturbing, but it works. A+.
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Teresa Moore
{K:11063} 1/4/2004
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I find the subject sick. But I guess I have a hard time finding beauty is strange things. Some people can find beauty in a pile of dog poop. I just can't.
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Carolyn Wiesbrock
{K:14051} 1/4/2004
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We are not closing our eyes, only opening them to more beautiful things that are the beginning not the end. This is repulsive and should not be posted. Sorry for the opionion but I'm entitled to it.
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Tom Meyer
{K:3514} 1/4/2004
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Very surprising. I appreciate the way people respond so caringly to the creative spirit in this photographic image, yet leap to condemn some one who comments in a creative way. lisa's comment ends "excellent again, same dog?" yet many people miss her intent and the comment she's actually making about Greg's comment. I suppose they are "visual" people and not very good at reading. I am somewhat disheartened by Paolo's implication that there is something inherently "American" about her reply. Can we suppose something about Italy from his words? Shall we believe that dogs are hated in Cuba? Please...
The photo is most sad, because the dog looks starved. A good photograph will cause the viewer to wonder about the subject in the photograph... it's history and it's implied future. This photograph hints at the past, and the future is an emptiness. Dogs are so innocent and their lives controlled by the people who encounter them. It's like an angel has died and a mortal seeks to know how. Excellent and sad.
Can you tell I'm an American, Paolo?... t
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Paolo Stefano Amero
{K:5607} 1/4/2004
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I would like to answer Lisa's statement, but it would turn into some political matter, wether she is american .I will avoid a political flame here.
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Bill Gibson
{K:2701} 1/4/2004
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in my opinion this does not rate photo of this day or any day - strange composition accomplishing what?
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Paolo Stefano Amero
{K:5607} 1/4/2004
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Yes, it is a dead dog. Unfortunately dogs die every day, as well as human beings... THe photo is blurred and not understandable at a first sight. at least to my eyes:) At th ebeginning it looked to me like a very fat man with small arms was holding a dead dog.
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Yasemin Ceylan
{K:273} 1/4/2004
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@ Lisa.
Sorry, but do you prefer close your eyes because of all that shit happen all around the world? I think it's important to see the bad and sad things too. If you don't you live in a fantasy world, believe me....
The picture is great. Very bizarre but it makes me thoughtful.
What is that in theright hand of the man?
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Gerhard BuschEFIAP/AFIAP
{K:18382} 1/4/2004
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Very large statement. Also the picture design is outstanding. I would
wish myself somewhat more sharpness. Greeting Gerhard
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Robin McAulay
{K:8908} 1/4/2004
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beautiful (i think so) sometimes it can be..
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Viktor Pravdica
{K:4907} 1/4/2004
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Sad one
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Natta Leonard
{K:1206} 1/4/2004
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It certainly grabbed my attention. Interesting work.
Regards,
Natta
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Fabio Keiner
{K:81109} 1/4/2004
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hits the nail
:
very fine photo art
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Roger Skinner
{K:81846} 1/3/2004
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Bizarre but it works pretty selfconciusly post modern but what the hell. Roger
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lisa .
{K:9370} 1/3/2004
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yes, how dare u post a picture of a dead dog!!!! wow, things like this dont happen where i live so i dont want to come on here and see that they happen elsewheer in the world!!!!!
excellent again, same dog?
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Monty Emken (Ostracon X)
{K:4804} 1/3/2004
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A very interesting, enticing, quite emotionally disturbing photo.
Kudos for the boldness.
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Greg Smereczynski
{K:2278} 1/3/2004
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I don't understand, what is this?; what kind of emotion would you like to get from us?; what kind of people, system produce such "an interesting" photo object?; is there a natural view in Cuba? I saw quite similar pictures from Ukraina 1920's, but instead of dogs, there were people.
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