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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 12/31/2006
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As already mentioned new discoveries are not going to contradict known laws. If the already known excludes something from the range of possibilities then no new observation will take that back in the range of possible things. Notice that I don't talk about "the unknown" but about "the excluded". That's not the same, and mixing up the two things is always good for a great nice... mess! :-)
Exclusion is not what might be, but rather how it simply can't be. And exclusion is what science does. So, finding out how it can't be eliminates *any* fantastic property now and for all times.
You answered the question about pain yourself. Analogies of nutrition and the like are perhaps nice but unfortunately completely insufficient to support any possibility of "pain" for plants. In fact, the analogy-thinking was a great hindrance for understanding all the time.
There will be many many surprises in our path of cognition but not of this kind. The biggest surprise that you can have is to observe and understand without the need of wished miracles. Take a look in the direction of the great attractor with a telescope and see such a big surprise. You are going to see... more or less nothing! ;-) Now, that's a surprise! LOL!
Take care too,
Nick, the sceptical exclusionist! ;-)
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Annemette Rosenborg Eriksen
{K:55244} 12/30/2006
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Dear Nick
Well, there was a time when people and scientist had other views upon the world, and I don´t believe just for a second that we know and have discovered everything that there is to discover.
In 200 years people might laugh about some of the observations and the "knowledge" that is accurate now. That is also fascinating!
When it comes to pain my logic tells me that it takes a brain to recognize pain and some nerves/sensors that are combined with the brain, but nevertheless a plant breaths air, needs light and nutrition like we do, so I can only say that I´m willing to be surprised;-)
Take care
Annemette(the eternal optimist and dreamer haha)
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 12/26/2006
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Thank you very much for the nice and detailed comment, and the generous rating Ardalan!
I just had to point out that it is exactly *this* universe, *this* very world that we perceive with our senses, that offers the most exciting things. It seems to me that most of us humans love to "create" impossible universes, which in itself is not bad at all, but then to also expect from this universe to be like those impossible ones instead of examining our thoughts with experiments and further thinking. It is very easy to assume something about the world, but for examining the validity of the assumption it does not suffice to "wish" or "dream" something about the world. One has to do research and experiment or read about the research and experiments done up to now.
The understanding about the details of this world is available to everybody. It's completely free and belongs to all of us. Let's use the precious work of generations and generations of people that worked so hard just for putting another small stone on the building of cognition and knowledge.
Thanks again and all the best to you brother!
Nick
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 12/26/2006
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Thank you very much for the nice cmment and the lighting idea, Andre! I have to try that out! I can imagine how differently such a macro would look! It must be really almost "radiating" then!
Ciao and keep well!
Nick
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Ardalan Haddad
{K:15567} 12/26/2006
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Firstly ,let me congratualte on your very readable and attarctive idea sharing with dear Annemette.
I like it a lot.
2ndly,im so glad to see sucha powerful focuse on a very valuable element of this universe,which's been perfectly framed.
Well done,
Your understanding of details in this unvierse,can make you beyond and ultra more and more.
Good luck bro.
Ardalan.
Proudly 7+
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Andre Denis
{K:66407} 12/25/2006
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Hi Nick,
A great job with the light in this one.
Close-up plant macros are always interesting. One thing I found that works very well is having a strong light behind the plant leaf, if you want to create a completely different semi transparent look.
Andre
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 12/25/2006
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Thank you very much Jöszef!
Best wishes,
Nick
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 12/25/2006
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Thanks a lot for the nice comment, Peter!
Have a nice day,
Nick
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Jozsef Dotzi
{K:582} 12/24/2006
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beautiful, the black frame makes it even more impressive
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Peter De Rycke
{K:41212} 12/24/2006
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Excellent close-up, very well composed in diagonal .. and great colours !
Peter
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 12/24/2006
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Thanks a lot for your nice comment, Annemette! Nice game of thoughts on the poetic direction but the answer to your questions is: No!
What we can "imagine" that could be is not what *is*. Life conditions and properties are not some kind of diffuse, romantic thought/dream, but very strict and very distinct rules. We might not know *all* those rules, *but*: Finding new unknown ones *cannot* make the already known ones invalid but only complement them. In that sense you can't expect to switch gravitation off by some "new unknown physical law" that our limnited senses do not comprehend.
And the laws we already know make such a sense for pain for plants impossible. Alone the fact that you exist is a very strong hint towards the nonexistent "pain" for plants. Think about what pain *is* and you find the answers very easily. Physics and mathematics have already solved many so called "pure philosophical" problems. The literature about that is completely free and downloadable from the web, though the vast majority still doesn't care reading.
As about limited senses that you often mention for refering to possibilities that "could be", we neither can sense directly infra or ultrasound, nor the whole electromagnetic spectrum, nor the atoms or the quarks, nor the black holes, nor quantum mechanics or relativity, nor even the small bacteria that give us our colds in winter, and *yet* we know that they do exist. Limited senses are no hindrance. (While limited thinking might indeed be a hindrance.) If limited senses were a hindrance, our computers and the whole UF would not be there, since we could never come to quantum mechanics that allow knowledge of the very fundaments of nature, which are what made the construction of processors and electronics for such machines possible.
The most incompehensible thing about the world is that it is... comprehensible! (That was not me, that was good old Albert.)
Take care too,
Nick
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 12/24/2006
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Many thanks, Gennaro, for the nice comment!
Nick
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Nick Karagiaouroglou
{K:127263} 12/24/2006
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Thanks a lot for the nice comment, Czeslav! This one has been really hard to get, but I am glad that you liked it.
My Christmas will be merry indeed, especially watching people running in panic for buying yet another thing. No satire can be more humorous!
Have a nice holiday too - and keep an eye on running people! ;-)
Nick
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Annemette Rosenborg Eriksen
{K:55244} 12/24/2006
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Dear Nick
A beautiful pattern of veins. When seing that leaves also have veins I come to think if plants also have a sense of pain. To us they are beautiful, lifegiving, soothing and also sometimes in the way, but are they something more that we can´t comprehend with our limitted senses?
Anyway a nice macro.
Take care
Annemette
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Gennaro Manna
{K:21301} 12/24/2006
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Great natural pattern, beautiful light and composition
gennaro
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Czeslav Gavinkovski
{K:6800} 12/24/2006
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Great natural abstract.Congrats for lighting and nice contrast beetwen yellow and green.
Marry Christmas!
Czeslaw.
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